Beyond the Plate: Building Max Hospitality with Richard Rosenthal

After months away, Season 5 kicks off with the mastermind behind all the Max Restaurants, Richard Rosenthal. In this episode, Rich sits down with Richard to hear how a young dream grew into one of Connecticut’s most celebrated dining empires. Richard shares the drive and curiosity that pushed him to take risks, set impossibly high standards, and keep learning along the way. He opens up about lessons learned from failure, the thrill of creating something people love, and the discipline that turns vision into reality. This conversation is about food, yes, but also about ambition, grit, and building something that lasts.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome everybody. Today I have uh Rich Rosenthal. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for having me. You're welcome. Um you've been friends for a long time with your um uh one of your closest friends and former partner, Steve Abrams.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

And um and so I hope you love him as much as I do.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

He is one of the you know, it's funny, we may be relatives. Do you know this? Also, my birth name was Abrams. My last name. And you know, it's traced to, you know, Belarus in Eastern Europe of some kind. Um and um I it that was my father's last name, but my father wasn't really involved in my life, so it's I think I was 10 or 11. I took my grandfather's last name, my mother's birth name, Brockland. But it was Rich Richard Abrams was my birth name, and so I told him that recently, and he's like, We've gotta be related. Like, we how what's the chances of like it's it was Obramowitz and then Abrams?

SPEAKER_00 0:53

Was his the same?

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Yes. So I said, could you please go and do one of those DNA things? You know, and he's like, he's afraid that there's a kid out there, you know what happens, you know what happens, but I I keep I'm gonna keep pushing him to do it because I've always had like I felt like a connection to him or something. And I said, We've got like we there there there has to be some relation because they can't we're from the same area, you know, our ancestors are from the same area in Eastern Europe, and we had the same last name.

SPEAKER_00 1:19

There's gotta be Did you say Belarus? Like Belarus, Poland, um well, Belarus is Russia, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Russia, but but that that whole area like Ukraine, Poland, it was all sort of a blur at the time, right? It wasn't there wasn't really you know, Poland what came around in the 20s, so it was you know that that area was uh um it was all from that area Ukraine-Poland uh region. So he uh so anyway, we we think we're related.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

So my grandfather Max was from Bialistok. Okay, which if you ever saw the producers, which I'm sure you have, yes, it was Max Bialistok by coincidence said, but my grandfather was from Bialistok. So the show or the movie or the play, um, the producers, there's this scene where they answer the phone, Bialostocka blue, Bialistokabloo. So Steve and I for probably 50 years. If you're gonna call each other like that. If if I answer the phone, I will go Bialistaka boom, and he does the same thing. Oh my god. And it's not every time, it's like every tenth time or something.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

It's just so that's so funny. Yeah, so anyhow, that so I've known him forever, and I've you know you know known about you, and you know, I've been here in I'm 50, right? So I've been here since I grew up in the New Haven area, but I've been in law school here since 97, so sort of knew you. You went to Yukon, I said? I went to Yukon Law, yeah. And uh I went to college at American University in DC, um, and then came back for law school and settled here. Um and I've always been a um a huge fan of what you guys have put together. I didn't really get into good food until college, maybe, or not college, law school, I would say. Took Stephen longer. Took Stephen longer, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He um yeah, he did talk about that. Yeah, he um he I just I just didn't, you know, we were we were poor, I was a poor family, so we didn't, you know, we go out maybe to Ponderosa or something, and that was a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

Texas toast, Kiko Rosa.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Texas toast. I I do love Ponderosa still. There's one in there was one in um in Kissimmee for the longest time still. Where's Kissimmee? Next to Orlando. It's like Florida. Oh yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

I go Kissimmee, Connecticut.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Yeah, Kissimmee, Florida. And uh, and so the two about four years ago when we were down in Florida, we went to Ponderosa, and it was great, the big salad bar, you know, it's fantastic. And uh um, but it's gone now. Like it just it didn't make it through. None left? None left. It's sad. There was there was a place, there's one left called York Steakhouse. I don't know if you remember that. It was one of West Farm's Mall. It's one of my favorite places. My grandparents would take me every Sunday, and it was General Mills that started that, and they had they were huge, and they had their test store in Columbus, Ohio. And the former manager there bought out the remaining one and he's still there, and now it's called like Rich's York Steakhouse. And I went there about 10 years ago, and it's all the same menu, and he still keeps it there, and it's in Columbus.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

You know, Columbus is like the testing ground for a lot of restaurants.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

But well, you know what that's from? That started from General Mills, who was the headquartered there, and they would test them all there. So all the chains and everything like that.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

That's kind of like that's Peoria. You know, if it works in Columbus, it'll work. It'll work anywhere, right?

SPEAKER_01 4:11

And so and and and it's funny because uh, you know, I want to get into that with you because sometimes you know, I wonder like some of those places, you know, and I've eaten at those places, I try to avoid them because I I think you can get better meals and I'd like to support you know local places, although they employ a lot of local people. Um like I wonder sometimes like I go into I've I've had those type that type of food before, and I just I don't I don't know how it works. I I to me it's it's not good. I mean, sometimes it is, right? You could get like there's somebody can make you, you know, a 3,000 calorie mac and cheese at the Cheesecake Factory that'll you know, you know, knock your socks out. Make you happy as hell. Oh my god, right? But it's like there's it's just made in a commissary somewhere with the worst possible ingredients, made with margarine and oil.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

And you know, we've all been sitting in a place like, you know, and I don't go, I probably do fast food less than once a year.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

But I remember years ago, one of my partners, Mark Connolly, who uh I don't know if you know Mark, he was at Maxamori for years. I don't, and uh, another brother of mine, you know, yeah, unrelated brother. Mark, um, we were looking at some restaurant site in near the shoreline, and we stopped at Burger King on the way. We were just we had no time, but we're so hungry. The two of them are sit two of us are sitting over the table eating like double whoppers with extra bacon, you know, whatever the whole whatever you could add to a sandwich. We're sitting there, we take two or three bites, and we go, we could go to the best restaurant, and it will not taste better than this taste right now. True, you know, and that's you know, and again, I don't love I don't even like fast food, but when it's there's a certain time, it just hits.

SPEAKER_01 5:42

When the mayo's going down your chin a little bit, and it's that special, like that processed mayo that's even more processed at that moment. More than Hellman's. And it's amazing. It's amazing. No, you're right. There is.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

There's something about it, and you go, you could you know, you could go to John George and spend you know 500 a person and you'll go, it was good. And you go to Burger King and you go, it's fucking delicious. Fucking delicious, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:03

And it's loaded with and and and there's you know, there's a theory that the the food scientists at these places, and there's a big lawsuit going on now, they're actually like marketing it to make it very addictive for Americans and and and and and contributing to the you know, we have disproportionate obesity odemic here than other countries. And the theory is that they've literally like drug, like they've literally made the product addictive well, sugar salt to make it addictive so the profits go up.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Uh, because look, you can go, you've been to Italy, I'm sure, France. You go there and you eat like a king, right? You eat everything, and you come back and you're like, I didn't get any weight.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

You also walk 10 miles away. You walk a lot, too. Right. No, you're not. No, you're right. The food is the processed food. You know, you take um uh Robert Kennedy Jr., right? Crazy guy. Crazy as fuck. But the food stuff, I think. He's right. And I haven't paid a lot of attention to it, but his food philosophies, um I back him 100%.

SPEAKER_01 6:54

I agree with him on that. I agree with him, right? There's a huge problem. And I forgot some plaintiff's lawyers have gotten together and they're suing the you know, the big boys about this stuff that you basically, like the cigarette company litigation, saying you guys have fucked us and and made these problems because it can't be that like like the that there's you've marketed and and created these products that are hugely addictive and unhealthy, and for the sole purpose of your shareholder bottom line, it's really um it's really interesting. But let's back up a second because I'm getting ahead of myself because I want to talk to you about all this stuff. But well, we have two hours, right? We have six. Um, the and you're catering it. I didn't tell you that. Um, no, uh, so when um did you are you a Connecticut guy? Did you grow up?

SPEAKER_00 7:36

I grew up in West Harvard. Oh, you're a West Hartford guy.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

A Conor Call? A Hall. Hall or conversation. A hall, come on. You're a Hall. Okay. All right. My wife's a Conored lady. Oh god.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

So Well, we always like the Conored girls. The Conor girls. She's the Conner girl. Because they didn't know how they didn't know how queer we were. Yeah, yeah. They didn't have any history, so they, you know. So you so grow up right here. Yeah. And uh it's siblings. I have two older brothers. Okay. One six years older and one eight years older. Six. So I feel like I grew up almost an only child.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Other than I had siblings, you know. But as far as my junior high school and high school years, they were both until you're alone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

And then the so even six years though is a huge spread because he's nine and you're three.

unknown 8:16

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

He's off to a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Yeah, we have nice relationships now, but it wasn't. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Even my friends growing up, like I had like I have a brother. My mom remarried and had kids, my brother and I are 11 years apart. So we had a little time together, but then I was off to college. You're like an uncle. I'm like an uncle. But now we have a great relationship because the spread between you know 40 and 29, or you know, or 40 and 51 is nothing. Right. It's uh yeah, so you're here. Um, intact family, but parents growing up.

SPEAKER_00 8:43

Yeah, both stayed together. They're both passed away now. No, no, right. But at the time, yeah. What do they do? My dad was a CPA. Okay. And my both my brothers ended up being CPAs.

SPEAKER_01 8:53

Oh, interesting. So they they that CPA, was your mom a homemaker, or did she just she was a homemaker, but extremely involved.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

She worked more hours out of the home doing, I shouldn't say out of the home, but non-umestic stuff. Oh. Mostly Jewish related charities, you know, like Jewish Federation Temple. That was important to your family.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

You bar mitzfod and everything like that. Okay, so you were you conservative or reformed? Conservative. Conservative.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

And I'm a little less than that now. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

I tell people I'm Jewish-ish.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Well, I'm Jewish for sure. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

No, I'm Jewish. My DNA is Jewish, but I'm saying in terms of everything else, I'm, you know, I'm a little weak on the observance. Well, that's right. Because my wife one day we go to a and my wife's a sh, you know, a shiksa goddess, and she yeah, we go somewhere, and I, you know, you know, I'm a marketer, I meet people and stuff, and I like she's seeing me and she pulls me aside, she's like, she saw me Jew it up with somebody, you know, like and she's like, what the hell was that? Like, I'm using Yiddish words and all this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

No, I know that.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

She's like, what is that? Yeah, and I said, Oh, I can I could bring it out if I need to. Right.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

We talk we talk job, we talk Jewish chime.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Talk Jewish jive, and she's like, I couldn't even believe this stuff. So so you do that, you barmits food, you're um you you you're living here, you go to the school. Well, do you go to college after right away?

SPEAKER_00 10:03

I go to uh I went to uh Bentley College, which is now Bentley University. Sounds much more special, doesn't it? No, yeah. That's right. I don't really know the difference, but um went through school, did got by through the skin of my teeth. Right, you were weren't a good student. Uh I wasn't there's two there's two sides to it. Okay. I don't think I was overly capable as far as you know, maybe a little uh ADD or whatever. And I didn't spend a lot of energy doing it. So the combination resulted resulted in very low GPA.

SPEAKER_01 10:35

Yeah, right. Because they didn't know what AD was then. They didn't.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

They didn't. Um it probably exists, it obviously existed and they probably knew about it, but not every kid got uh.

SPEAKER_01 10:45

Well, because I I I I'm an ADHD or and you know they they used to say, oh, he's very smart, doesn't apply himself, he's lazy, but he's very creative.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

But Rich, they didn't ever say I was smart and didn't apply myself. They said he didn't apply himself.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

All right, Mayor. All right, so what's Steve is at University of Rhode Island?

SPEAKER_00 11:02

No, or is he at Bentley though? No, Steve went to Bentley.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Oh, Bentley, so that's where you mean. Steve's from Rhode Island, but he went to Bentley. Right, right. I remember now. All right. So do you like as a kid, do either of your parents cook in the house?

SPEAKER_00 11:12

My mother was a very good cook.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

What's the best dish she made?

SPEAKER_00 11:15

You know, her Jewish cooking was very good. Brisket and lima beans? She used to make a dish that I hated. Not pacha or something like that. No, she used to make a side dish of mushrooms and lima beans. Oh, I've had that. And as a kid, that was the only two foods I did not like. I pretty much liked everything growing up. But mushrooms and lima beans to me were the most disgusting things in the world, which now I think that dish I'd probably like. Because there's nothing I don't like now, really. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

So she made the like traditional salt.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

But then she but then she was made things like she grew up in a kosher home. Her father was Max was orthodox, started a temple, you know. Oh, she was not orthodox, but she was still culturally very Jewish. But she would make like baked stuff shrimp, stuffed clams, things like that, and they were great. I still haven't had a bakey stuffing nearly as good as my mother's. So she would eat shellfish. Oh yeah. Okay, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

So you were conservative, but you would still eat shellfish.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

I know, but uh, we were it was more cultural. Well, I guess that would fall into cultural anyway.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

But you went the you went to Yom Kippers uh ceremony. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, we'd have great seders, great, you know, we did all that stuff. But you'd eat a hamburger, a cheeseburger. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah. All right. So so she made that.

SPEAKER_00 12:25

What um I mean, she bought ham cold cuts, if I recall.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

All right, so that's funny you say cold cuts. You ever heard the word cold cuts? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's so funny. Lunch meat. That's what I'm saying. That's what the working class says. They say lunch meat, yeah. So she would make that lunch meat is a step above a slim gym. A slim gym. Uh um, what did you never heard of that? Yeah, you know a slim gym. So so tell me about the um, so how often would would she do Sunday dinners?

SPEAKER_00 12:48

Was there a I don't remember Sunday dinners like you know, as a thing. Friday night dinner was a big deal. That was the shopping. Yeah, and it wasn't a again, it was not a you know, she'd like the candles, we'd have dinner, and you had the typical roasted chicken or or um brisket, etc.

SPEAKER_01 13:04

So you did that and um and and your dad's a CPA, but did he have his own practice or was he in a bigger?

SPEAKER_00 13:10

He started in a kind of a smaller practice, which grew into a very large practice. I don't know if you ever heard of Bloom Shapiro. Yeah. So it it it turned into that over the years.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Oh okay. So he did that. So so nobody, anybody involved in hospitality or a restaurant?

SPEAKER_00 13:24

Nothing. No, they were hospitable.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Hospitable, but not in like in an official capacity.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

There was always a seat empty at my mother's table. So people I should say empty. If there was someone who was not had a place to eat, they were coming.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

And your friends would come over and she'd feed them?

SPEAKER_00 13:36

I mean, it was never like, oh, we're having dinner, you gotta go home. Right, right. Or having dinner, do you want to stay?

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Right, it's right. It's always that sort of like I always say it's almost like the Jews and the Italians are very similar in that sense. Like the the joke is right, Italians are happy to. Who's got better food though? Oh, the Italians. It's not even close. Oh, it's not even close. Oh, it's not even close.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

You know, we we kind of end at bagels and locks as far as been really good. After that, it's you know, we lose big time.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

We lose big time. That's correct. It's it's we the kosher the kosher food now. I know Rabbi, you know Rabbi Gopin. Sure. Right? He comes here and beats with me off the he stops by the visit? He comes by gonna write him a check. He's probably waiting right out the door. I love him, but you can't outlast him. He can't outlast him. He comes and he comes and he sends his menu. I told him the police stop sending every Friday they knock on the door and they get all the flustered because the girls are wearing a dress and they walk in and then Don't try to shake, don't shake his hand.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Don't shake his hand.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

No, he's okay, but like the uh then I try to have the uh the other people, I say to them, I said, I want to read some old tests, some New Testament with you. And they're like, We can't. And I'm like, I'll read the old testament, we'll be the new testament. I give them a hard time, but the young kids. But oh yeah, so he has me to an event, and the kosher food has come a long way. Like it's delicious. Like they have it catered by, I forgot who caters it now, maybe Yossi, you know, Yossi.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

I know of Yossi. I know he's a kosher caterer.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

When you're in town, go get his food, order it. It's it's more of like um it's Israeli. Yeah, yeah, I would love to love it. It's like, you know, uh like almost like like shawarma with uh these like Mennonite, I think, potatoes. And it's good. It's fantastic. Does he have a kid? Does he have a takeout type thing? Yeah, so mostly takeout. He caters, he does things. Nobody has like a Uber Eats, does it? Yeah, in Windsor. He has a couple of tables in there, but it's mostly uh delivery to West Hartford. Um and so I I was impressed because as a kid I remember like you know, kosher food, even if it was Italian or whatever was, it was always awful. And so now it's gotten better. They've they've gotten better. But you're right, the Italian.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

There's no reason it can't be good.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

There's no reason it can't be good. But you know, it's you know, it's sushi, right? It's Japanese food, so it's it's gonna be good. But the uh but the uh but Italians for sure have the best. I think they may Italians are probably top five of cuisine in the world, I think.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

I think it's one easily. You think it's one? Yeah, I mean, especially the for something you could have often.

unknown 15:42

I guess.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

You can't get another enough attack.

SPEAKER_01 15:44

That's true, right? You could have uh chicken franchise or chicken parm every night. A scar scarp? A chicken scarp. That's your scarp. That's my favorite one to make. I love a veal parm.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

You know what's funny? I grew up, veal parm was like the dish. And then people started eating chicken parm. I go, what a crappy imitation of veal parm.

SPEAKER_01 16:05

Chicken's better.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

I think chicken parm is better.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Have you gotten the veal parm bone-in at Viron Rondo Asteria?

SPEAKER_00 16:12

I've never been there. You have to go there.

SPEAKER_01 16:14

Do you know him?

SPEAKER_00 16:15

No.

SPEAKER_01 16:16

I think I met him years ago. If you have time, you're driving, listen to the podcast he did here to just see the numbers.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

The guy's so admirable from what I've witnessed from afar.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

He's a lovely man. He's amazing. And his backstory is interesting about his mother in Greece. And he said to me, he, you know, when he came on, and I said, There's no way, you know, and Mother's Day, there's 3,200 covers. I said, You I said, there's no way your food's any good. I said, I said it to him right to his face. I said, There's no fucking way you can do that. He goes, You come and tell me your food. Are you telling me? I came in and said, Your food's delicious. He's got two 5,000 square foot kitchens.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

It's it's everything I've heard about him, it's great. You know, in the summer, uh, you know, I'm in Florida all winter. In the summer, I live in Old Saybrook. Okay. So And there's no to eat down there. Nothing to eat. No, no, there is. There's five places. Four, maybe. He knows. He goes. But uh, well, the best place to eat is at my house.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

But or Grano Orso in Essex.

SPEAKER_00 17:05

Grano Orso is very good. And uh there's, you know, Liv's is really good. Liv's is so solid. I've eaten probably in Liv's That's your place more than any restaurant other than Max restaurants in my life. Liv's is good. I like Lives Because he's there twenty. I've been there about 20 years. He's been there about the same time. And John's a uh very good chef. Um I like Lives.

SPEAKER_01 17:25

But every time we rent a place down there, and we're always like, No, it's you've got to go to New Haven or Essex.

SPEAKER_00 17:30

Or Cafe Rudier. Delicious. Delicious. Yeah, so there's a handful of very good places. And um, what are we talking about? The veal the veal of the chicken. Yeah, the veil of the chicken. So Ron, so it's Oh, by Rondo. That is about two hours away from where I buy them. Yeah, yeah. It's really good. I don't care how good it is, I'm not making the two hours.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

It's it's very, it's very, very good. So, all right, let's go. So you go to Bentley, and um what are you doing after Bentley?

SPEAKER_00 17:54

So I graduate Bentley with a a solid 2.1 average. Sounds like my college. And the and the job market when I graduate, you know, if you're not, it wasn't a great job market. And if if you didn't have great, you know, grades or whatever, you know, the the people that were coming to this campus to recruit weren't very interested in me. Right. And what and what year is this? Uh 80. 81. 81. Okay. Only because I I took an extra year to really get a better education.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

Okay. Right. Right. So better known as the five-year plan. The five-year plan. So you're 81 and you move back here?

SPEAKER_00 18:27

I um, yes, I moved back here, and I spent all my high school college years working in restaurants. So I kind of doing what, busing or busing, waiting, bartending, dishwashing, everything.

SPEAKER_01 18:40

How important, you know, Anthony Bordoon used to say like those the people that have that experience used or like you you you gain a module or a gear that's so important for the rest of the world.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

There's no question. It's uh it's the that foundation of knowing every spot in the kitchen. It it get it makes you just the knowledge and the experience. But just but even if you're gonna be a lawyer, whatever you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

The best. The best, right? Because you better than any internship. Right, because you work with people there that are either, you know, that are you're trying to make them happy, but they can be nasty.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

You're you Well, it's the people you work with and the people you work for, meaning the the guest. Right. Right. So right. It's a great or the employer and the employer. You learn to deal with some, you know, brick of an owner or a great owner.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Or a great owner. Yeah. So right, so you would encourage uh kid parents to encourage their kids to do that once in their life?

SPEAKER_00 19:26

I had a good friend whose son was going to Yale and was getting some internship. And I said, have him wash dishes for a summer. And he thought it was crazy and he never did it. Now he's a judge or something.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

No, but right. But he could he still could have used that. Right to learn how to do that.

SPEAKER_00 19:42

A little grit in your life.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

Yeah, no, for sure. Did you, did you, so did you ever you did you ever make it to the kitchen or do we always in front of the house?

SPEAKER_00 19:49

No, I went after after a couple years of screwing around here working, yeah. My brother sends me an article. I guess he was worried about me. He sends me an article from New York magazine. Did he, like, mail it like he cut it out and sent the thing? So it had to be. I mean, that's the only way to do it. He couldn't even fax it then, probably. Couldn't fax it then. Well, it probably has to be.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

No, but I remember this. Somebody sent me an article once when I was a kid. I remember it came like folded up and cut out.

SPEAKER_00 20:11

So it was in New York magazine, and the title of the story was So You Want to Open a Restaurant. And one of the things in the story was this school in New York called the New York Restaurant School that was a small kind of um, I'll call it avant-garde, cooking school. Okay. And I said, This is for me. I'm going there. And I talked my parents into giving me enough money. I don't think it was particularly expensive. I have my father's partner, Yodi. Yudi is Yoddy Shapiro from Boom Shapiro. Gives me a ride to the city because his daughter at the time, I think, was in law school. Okay. They dropped me off at the 92nd Street Y, where I live for about eight months.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

Dormitory style at 20, I was probably 24 by then.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

And you're living dormitory style with a hundred bucks in your pocket?

SPEAKER_00 21:00

If. If if.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

So I'm living in this dormitory, and everyone in the my floor, you know the 92nd Street Y? I don't. It's a it's a cultural center in New York, and it's really the Jewish why. Oh, I see. But you don't have to be Jewish, it's but they do all kinds of lectures and stuff like that. So it's a it has some prestige in the world of whys, and if you're New Yorkers, all know it because they'll have all kinds of cultural things. Even though it's a Christian organization.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

But this is a Jewish Y. Oh, a Jewish Y. Yeah. So it's not the YMCA, it's JCC or something. I get it was called the 92nd Street Y. I don't know what the. Maybe it was the Y and then they took it out or they took it over or something. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 21:36

I don't know that history.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

Um, but I did run run the elevator once with uh Well Fraser, which was Wow. In between women. So um oh, so my floor is all podiatry students because there's a local podiatry student. So I spent about eight months there with my little cubicle of a bedroom, um, showers and toilets that are. Um communal. Oh gosh. I don't think I said, and I'm a social person. I don't think I said two words in that building for eight months. Wow. I had nothing to do with these people. They were all doing their thing. I'm there. I'm coming. And I'd get there at 10 at night, 11 at night, with a couple cocktails in me, sleep, and leave at you know eight in the morning to go to school.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

And where was school? Downtown?

SPEAKER_00 22:21

It was on uh 32nd Street. Okay. Or um, where's Macy's? 33rd? 33rd in like no, not 30rd. Whatever, whatever street. I've been out of New York so long I can't remember now. But it's, you know, it was in that area.

SPEAKER_01 22:32

Right near Macy's. Near Penn Station.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

Yeah. Okay.

unknown 22:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:36

All right. So you're Macy's you're going back and forth, taking the subway. Yeah. Yeah, right. Yeah. Taking the subway.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

You're doing. And I have about five pieces of clothing. Wow. A pair of jeans, a pair of black jeans, a couple t-shirts, and a you know, a couple and a coat. A couple some coat I bought at a thrift store. Very cool coat. Kind of window pane. Oh, that's awesome. And you're learning to cook. I'm learning to cook and I'm learning about the taught half the day was cooking, the other half was like restaurant management. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

And how long did you do that for?

SPEAKER_00 23:04

Uh it was like eight months. Eight months. And then you graduate from I you graduate, and you know how I mentioned I wasn't a great student. For the first time in my life, I am the king of students. Wow. I am the class of the school. I'm the guy. You're the guy. You're the Valvictorian. I'm Val Victorian of a cooking school with a bunch of special needs kids. No, no. No, they were actually the people I went to school with were very interesting. A lot of them were like recalibrating their careers. You know, they were in finance or they were, you know, whatever. Yeah, just it was people that were, most of them were a little older going back to school.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

I see. Okay. So you so you're right. So you're the you're the head of the class. You found your thing.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

I found my all of a sudden I love school. I went from never liking school to loving it.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

But what happens at the end of your um, you know, when you graduate, do they give you did they help you find a job?

SPEAKER_00 23:54

I don't remember if they helped us, but I ended up getting a job in a c I worked in a couple of different restaurants in the city and just loved it.

SPEAKER_01 24:00

Regular, just like basic restaurants, anything? No, good place.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Well, well, the one that I spent the most time was a place called Pesca.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

It was 23 East 22nd. That address I can remember.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

And um are you a line cook there?

SPEAKER_00 24:15

I'm a line cook and I'm scheduled to come in like at nine in the morning.

SPEAKER_02 24:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

And I live walking distance to there by coincidence. And I would get there at 7. And I did that for like a year. So my f plan, it wasn't a plan, it was just a work ethic, I guess. I'd get there early, before the chef and the sous chef got there, and I'd do all their work.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

And what was the th what was the thing?

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Oh, I'm sorry, I would do all my work. So when they got there, I could they'd hand off their source.

SPEAKER_01 24:46

But what motivated you to do that?

SPEAKER_00 24:47

Because I wanted to learn. I wasn't there to make money. I was making six dollars an hour. Oh, right. So you were there to learn sous. I was there to learn. So you did all your prep. You did all your prep. I did all my prep, made my seafood design and my risotto prep, my pasta prep, all these things.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

But what but but that's that's abnormal behavior. And I'm not meaning a bad way.

SPEAKER_00 25:04

No, I think it's exceptional behavior.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

No, it's exceptional, but but but it's it's outside of the norm. Most people wouldn't do that. They would because it wasn't a job to me. It was like it was grad school. I see, but what but what what I'm trying to get at is what in your head motivated you to do that?

SPEAKER_00 25:18

Because I was opening a restaurant. Oh, I see. I'm opening a restaurant in my head. I don't know where, when, and how, but I'm opening a restaurant. You're opening a restaurant. I'm a determined idiot.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Right. No, but but there's always a you know, people that that have built you know very successful businesses, I always find they have this obsession with the business. They focus on it, they they don't they it's a singular focus, and you just it's almost it's almost uh it's obsessive is the right word. You just don't let go because but that's what also d you know, and that's what drives it to be successful, is because you just put so much effort and you come in the two hours early.

SPEAKER_00 25:56

I was one dimensional, I was so one dimensional. One dimensional.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

They see that about musk, all these other people that have done it. They're one that they just focus on it like a laser beam and then Rich.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

I'm one of those geniuses. No, I no, no, I'm not gonna be able to do that. No, I'm just determined.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

And it wasn't it wasn't even thought out, it's just what I was doing. But but 99% of people don't do that, right? And that's why they're there where they are, and you created an empire. And and so I'm just I'm always sort of interested in that, whether it's something that's learned or it's something you're uh born with, or it's a combination.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Like, why I don't know the answer to that. Yeah, I don't know where it came from, but it was kind of the first thing in my life. You know, I was still young.

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Do you think some of it is like you're the younger child and have to prove something? Is there some of that?

SPEAKER_00 26:39

I no, I don't think so. I don't think I was trying to prove anything. I just wanted to learn it. You want to do a rest right? I was so one of my teachers at school, I don't remember his name, but he was uh he was a management teacher. And one of the things he told us, one of our responsibilities was to read the New York Times every Wednesday, food section, and the review every Friday.

SPEAKER_02 26:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

So that was my to this day. Now it's not set up exactly the same way. But I read the New York Times Wednesday like it's my Bible. Still. Everything. Now, Lemon Cup doesn't interest me as much because it's um It's depressing. No, no, no, no. I'm talking about the food section. I'm not talking about the whole paper. Oh, yeah, yeah. They have other stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The food section.

SPEAKER_01 27:21

The other is filler. I thought it's whole advantage.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Phil's is gone, right? He's gone. Uh but he's writing some articles that are very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

I just saw the latest one. But um, I was just by the way, he has the best review I've ever read in my life, and I read it once a year out loud to my office, and it's the review of um uh what's the guy uh with the spiky hair?

SPEAKER_00 27:37

Um, uh what do you um Guy Fieri. Guy Fieri, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:41

Guy Fieri's restaurant in Times Square.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Great entertainer, lousy restaurants.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

It's a hundred questions. It's just questions that he asks. He's like, Did you feel that the the radiator fluid you served me was actually edible? Like you should read it. It is it is such a I remember reading it when it came out. It literally was, it's the best piece of writing since the I don't know, the the Odyssey. It's it's it's so it like leveled him. And as Vestors flew him in, he was in Australia at the time, he shows up on Good Morning America, like jet lagged, and he's like, oh no, we're gonna make things better here. Because the place is garbage. Didn't last. Didn't last. It didn't last. So you get there early, you do your prep work, and then they they it and what what are you doing on the line? Are you uh fish or meat?

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Well, I was uh most of the time I was kind of the pasta station. Okay, and it was a seafood restaurant, but it was different, it wasn't your you know 30 fish and all this stuff. It was very, it was kind of Italian seafood. Okay. And at the time I thought it was great. I'm and I'm thinking the things I learned there to this day. I really learned how to make a pasta. And I don't mean the new. Did you guys did you guys you only use fresh pasta then? Back then it was all dry. We only used dry pasta. Dry pasta. We only had one pasta. Oh but it was probably 20% of the lunch items. I see. And we had a risotto and one risotto, and we had the seafood lasagna that was kind of gross, I think. Seafood lasagna. Um but so I'd have to assemble that every morning.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Cheese on seafood. My thought on that?

SPEAKER_00 29:05

You can't put cheese in this seafood. You can't sprinkle a little bit. No, Italians won't like you. No, no. No, Steve and I, Abrams, yeah, we're in uh Italy with our wives, Paige and Vicky. And we're in this little, I was hoping this story would come up because I love this story. Um we're in this little place in Alba. Oh and the I think the our server is the owner, I think. Right. Or it feels like the owner. And Paige orders uh spaghetti vangala. And she comes out and she goes, Oh, I want to get some parmesan. Oh, and she and I go, I go, Paige, don't ask. I go, don't ask, and she goes, I want Parmesan. And I go, okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

First of all, you don't get Parmesan, you get Parmesan or Reggiano or Granicadano.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Parmesan is American garbage. Right. So I she finally calls, she calls over the lady and she goes, cheese on fish? It was the only English she said the whole time we were there. She goes, and she looks at it, she goes, and walks away and brought the cheese. But didn't want to.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

Oh my gosh. So you're working that whole line, you're making risotto and the pasta. And how long are you there?

SPEAKER_00 30:08

And you have to know how to stir risotto because risotto is impossible. Well, you're you know, to order, so you make what the way we did it. You didn't do a la minute or you had to. No, no, you'd pre-make the rice. Right, of course. So you made it like to 70%, I would say. And then you're you fold in the stuff. To order your you know, you fold you you saute your fish or what shrimp or clams or whatever it might be. Because you've got to have a pot of like 70% there because you couldn't do it otherwise.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

It takes it takes a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 30:29

Yeah, no, no. And you could you know, you it took about probably five minutes for each one, I'm guessing. It's so long ago. It's 40 years ago plus. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

So, all right. So you you do that and um you do the risotto, everything. How long are you there for? Uh about a year. A year. And then we're what's the next restaurant?

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Well, I was there, I worked at a couple restaurants in the city. I worked there, I worked at this place called the Back Porch, which was turdy, turd and turd. Turdy, what is that? 33rd and third. 33rd and third. That was just an average, it was nothing special. But Pesco to me was special, and it just I really cut my teeth. You call that fine dining? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, what I call yes, yeah. It was kind of bistro style, but upscale. Very upscale. The lunch was actually bigger than the dinner. It was the based on the location, whatever it was. We got a lot of garment people there. But who owned it? Was it uh a guy named Eugene Fraccia? Fraccia. Do you remember Steve brought up somehow? Steve brought up that in his.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Yeah, what is it? Who was that guy?

SPEAKER_00 31:23

Eugene worked for me, and I'm not worked for me, I worked for him. And he was the owner, and he would come in every morning with a newspaper under his arm, an umbrella, and he was um, how should I say he was a bit feminine? Oh, okay. Yeah, and a great guy. And I was like the only straight guy in this whole restaurant. Wow. Every the chef was gay, the sous chef was gay, the waiters were all gay. This was kind of when AIDS was, you know, ravishing the after I left there, several people passed away. And it was very sad. Uh, not while I was there, but you know, it must it must have peaked after I left. And um, Eugene, I'll never forget, Eugene walks in the restaurant one day, one morning, and I'm like the only guy in the kitchen at the when he comes in. And he's got the paper on his shoulder and he goes, Did you read the paper today, Richard Rosenthal? I go, No. He goes, Do you know that a man was shot in front of um Spark Steakhouse? Oh. Oh no, I'm sorry. It was done a couple days earlier. But he's got his paper and he goes, If I knew they were gonna get so much goddamn press, I would have gone up there and dragged that body down to Pesca.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

That was the assassination of uh Paul, was it Castellone or whatever?

SPEAKER_00 32:35

One of the one of the body.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

That was the John Gotti had the the uh had the guy assassinated. Exactly. That's my recording. Paul Castellano.

SPEAKER_00 32:42

Paul Castellano. Right in front of Sparks Takeouts. And he would have dragged that body all the way to 22nd Street. Sparks is still around. Not Pesca. No, not Pesca, but Sparks is around.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Yeah, and uh there's still that's you don't hear much about it though anymore. Yeah, no, but it that's on that's a good reservation. Just like it's just like Luger's or uh uh Del Monaco. What's the other place down in Wall Street there? The one that's been on Del Monaco? Harry's. Yeah, Del Monico. They have the Del Monico steak was invented there.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Del Monaco's all the restaurants, all those restaurants.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

And they just bought, and I was in the Times, they just bought the flag that draped Lincoln's casket for their Lincoln room. Really? Worth every penny. You know the numbers they're doing there. You know, the Wall Street guys come in and they spend three, four. Never been. Yeah, that's like a Del Monica. They have a really good that Del Monaco steak, but it's just really a ribeye. It's a ribeye, right? Yeah, but they um so yeah, they they the sparks is still there. That's still a big name in in New York for steakhouses. That's uh they still I I did Luger's recently. A friend of mine got me in there.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

Did you like it?

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Yeah, it was good. It was, you know, it's like it's it's but it's like I didn't know it was like a German beer hall.

SPEAKER_00 33:41

Right. The tables are all bleached wood, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:42

Yeah, and it's just like the guys come around, they only take cash or debit card because they don't want to pay the fees. Well, they used to take their only their credit card. Oh, that yeah, the luger's credit card, yeah. But now you can use your debit card, you have to put your pin in. But I mean, you know, a rib eye for whatever that stay, the porter house, whatever they bring for four, is$420. Worth every penny. It's delicious. If you got a lot of pennies, it's delicious, it's delicious. I thought it was good. I love the um that sauce you put on everything.

SPEAKER_00 34:04

You know, that well, that sauce is really not made for the steak. The big little green sauce is for the onion and tomato salad. Onion and tomato salad, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

But you dip your bread in it, you wind up through everything. It's good. So, all right, so you finish in how do you get from New York to Connecticut?

SPEAKER_00 34:17

Through through Newport, Rhode Island. Oh, interesting. So, one of my bosses from the One Way Fair, I don't know if you remember that restaurant. It's in um Simsbury. Old trade station converted into like a upscale hamburger bar. It was an institution in Simsbury for 30, 40 years. What's there now? Um, Plan B was or is there, I don't know. I know they bought it a while ago. Okay. Which broke my heart because I always wanted to get that place. But I had the smallest kit. The kitchen was the old ticket booth.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

But they had great food for what it was. Okay. And I really cut my teeth there a lot. I didn't, that wasn't part of my story. But um spent a lot of summers working there, a year after college. So so after I was in New York, Mitchell Uswack, who was one of my mentors, and uh he was opening a restaurant in Newport with two other guys. A guy from uh a dentist and a guy from uh Otis Elevator. Oh gosh. And those two guys were they were good guys, but you know you've heard the story a zillion times, right?

SPEAKER_01 35:18

Like two like executives wanna want to restaurant.

SPEAKER_00 35:21

Unfortunately, they had Mitchell, who Mitchell they all eventually did not get along. The business was a huge failure. Right. Um, and I really learned so much. So Mitchell begged me to come to Newport and help open this restaurant. From New York. From New York. Okay. He thought I was an asset. Right. I didn't know that much at that point.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

But what in what capacity?

SPEAKER_00 35:39

I went there as his manager. Kind of I would I was second to him running the restaurant. But by the time things moved on, sales were so slow in this winter. You know, it was so I ended up cooking, I did everything there. Okay. But I learned more than I've ever ever could have learned in school. You know, what not to do. I learned everything. I learned how to, first of all, budget. And the budget was not like on paper, it was like, okay, we're gonna do 12 lunches today, we can spend like 300,$3 on food. Right.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Right, right. So you do that, and that goes belly up, and then what? Uh end up coming back to Hartford with a plan to open a restaurant.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

So now you're ready and you're 20. I am well when I open, I'm 29.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

Almost 30. Like uh a couple months before. Move back home. No, my wife and I had to. Oh, you're married already. Sorry, I got married a little before that. Okay. We got married in uh New York, but we were living in Newport. Oh, girl from New York? She was from uh Westchester, met her in New York when I was in culinary school. Oh, I see. I mean, I was a huge uh draw guy living at the 92nd Street. Why? With a pair of black sneakers.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

She saw potential.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

I got a black, you know, she's very smart, but I'm not sure what she was doing.

SPEAKER_01 36:50

Was she a restaurant person?

SPEAKER_00 36:50

No, she was in advertising. Oh, in advertising. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

So she's doing that. You meet in New York, and you convince her to go to Newport with you?

SPEAKER_00 36:56

Um I guess I'm trying to think if we were engaged yet or not. We must have been engaged. Okay. And she went there and she got a good job in Providence with a good ad agency. Okay. So she was okay. It worked out well for her. Yeah. My job was great. I mean, it was hard. I worked basically from Monday morning to Saturday night straight. Okay. So Sunday was my day off. And Monday was a restaurant day there. Yeah. Okay. Well, especially when you're running a restaurant day.

SPEAKER_01 37:18

When you're running, you have to do it. But it's right.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

So you go from Monday to Saturday and So I know I spent my first two years, I spent two years in Newport until I got fired. I don't think I saw the ocean other than what you could see from my I was not on a sailboat, I was not on the beach.

SPEAKER_01 37:34

So you see that, and then you uh you get fired, and you and you have kids at this point?

SPEAKER_00 37:39

I only got fired because Mitch got fired. Oh. And then somehow one thing left, I was Mitch's boy. Uh so it was I was doing a good job, I think I was doing a good job. But the restaurant failed miserably after us. Do you then try for something else there or do you come back here? I didn't know. I spent about a month or two getting unemployment, right? Which was so much fun. Right, because then you were able to go to the beach. Yeah. I remember sitting on the beach with uh, I think Steve was there also, Vicky and a couple other people. And I go, first of all, we're figuring out what time we were going to pick up our unemployment check on Monday. And I remember saying the problem with being doing nothing is you don't know when you're finished.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

That's a good line. So you you you do that, and um, are you sort of plotting the restaurant open?

SPEAKER_00 38:22

I'm planning to go back to Hartford, open a restaurant. I've got my mother agreed to give me some money that she sold Capitol Candy building. Her father was Max, sold a building that was Capit, which was a wholesale candy and tobacco business. So she inherited a little bit of money, which she was willing to loan to me. She was willing, she's willing to give it all to one of the most I think my father was a not against it, but it was clearly Well, your father was a CP, so he knew it's literally the worst gamble you could do is invest. So he was he was very supportive of it. Right.

SPEAKER_01 38:53

And would you agree, right? Like if like just statistically the worst. The worst thing to do is like you rest in a restaurant, you might as well go to the casino. You might as well go to the casino. Or be a professional. Professionally, it's that it's that rare that it'll succeed. But we see a lot succeed here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

A lot of great wrestling.

SPEAKER_01 39:06

We do, we do, right, that have been here 25 years. Yeah. So you you go and uh and and so how does it and is it does it come about the name Max? Because obviously your mother's father, and he was the one that left her the money. Is it like a tribute to him?

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Yes and no. Okay, yes, is the the the the political answer. So um, we're gonna call the restaurant we're um in this neighborhood, South Green, which no one really knew it as South Green. Near the, you know where the original restaurant was? It was where peppercorns is? Yes. We're a block south of that, right? Okay, so um Dino worked for me for a little while.

SPEAKER_01 39:42

Oh, yeah?

SPEAKER_00 39:43

Everyone worked with me for a little while. I haven't been there in years, so Dino's a great chef. Great chef. Great chef. Uh, and a great guy. Um, so um oh, we're going to call it South Green Kitchen and Bar, and a little bit modeled after the Soho Kitchen and Bar in New York. We're gonna have the first restaurant to really specialize in wines by the glass. And we had a Crouver system we were purchasing. It was a different brand. A guy at a Providence um forgot what it's even called, but it was a a kind of a cooler version, in my opinion. Okay. You know, Crouvenet is a wine dispenser. Um and as I'm doing all the um planning with you know, architects, wine salesmen, you know, everyone. How much money did you have to spend? Total of 300. You had 300. Because we borrowed 200 from the bank.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

So a total of three, so 100 from your mom. And 200 from the bank. 200 from the bank. And this is what year?

SPEAKER_00 40:37

1986. We opened it in 86.

SPEAKER_01 40:40

That's a lot of money.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

It was a lot of money then. It's a lot of money. By today's standards, we spend that on bank.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

Today's standards, that's probably three million bucks.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Uh, I don't know how the probably. Yeah. But that's what it would cost to do it.

SPEAKER_01 40:51

So that's so you so so you're doing that, and you're you're how long does it take you to find the space and get everything built out?

SPEAKER_00 40:58

I found the space. Um, I was very lucky. The guy that owned the building, um, David Case. Okay. Yeah, great guy. And he was developing the building. I don't think he had any other tenants who were interested. So he's like, here, these kids we've got to be. So he but he was uh and he was a good partner in this project in a way, not a financial partner, but um he believed in us. So we did the restaurant, and uh, as we're getting back to the name, as we're planning it, I'm getting such a lukewarm feeling from everyone with my name. You know, they're all going, Oh, South Green Kitchen Apartment. Like no one. So we're in a meeting with the architects. We're getting closer opening, but we're um we're getting closer, and I said, No one seems to like this name. And they go, We don't really like it either. I didn't want to tell you, right? Right. So we start talking about names, and somehow I get to there was a restaurant, uh Wolfgang Puck had a restaurant in LA called Spago. No, well, Spago, but he had Chinois on Maine. Okay, and it was kind of an Asian French concept, I guess. And I had that in my head. I go, how about Rich on Maine? And then I think, how about Max on Maine? Because yeah, alliterative exactly. And um, everyone at the table. And it rhymes with sex, so like that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

I'm sure your wife will tell you like the ad agency, that's a thing.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

Like uh well, uh, she wasn't a creative, she was more in the sales part. But um she uh everyone at the table goes, Max on Main. I loved it, like was an immediate yeah, like that's it, it was the complete opposite. And you changed the name at the table, and Max, of course, your grandpa. Yeah, so it you know, I could you know have the bullshit story I was honoring my grandfather, which I was, I was but but but but you were in a way because that's what came into your head. But if his name wasn't Moisha, it wouldn't have worked. That's correct.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

Moisha on Maine. Right, you know. So Max on Main, that was it.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

That was the name. So and for the first two years, we never had a sign because we didn't, it was too late to get a sign. Oh and we later built a beautiful sign.

SPEAKER_01 42:53

Beautiful sign.

SPEAKER_00 42:54

I was so proud of the fact we didn't have a sign. Who did your sign? Oh did you ever use uh Lauren?

SPEAKER_01 42:58

Lauren Rosa. Oh Lauren, he was on the pod.

SPEAKER_00 43:00

Oh, he was, he's a great guy. Oh my god, the best sign guy in the world. Best sign guy in the world. Never made a penny on any sign he made.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

He does. He came in, he did our sign here, and he's doing some new signage because we've got some new space over here. And um, I became good friends with him. You know, we have a sign here here, and he looked at it. He's sitting there during the thing. I said, What are you looking at? You keep looking over here at this thing. He goes, That thing is three-eighths of an inch off. I said, What are you talking about? He gets up, he's like, Give me a piece of paper and he marks it. Sure enough, it's three-eighths of an inch off. He can see it. He's like, I'm taking this whole thing down. And I said, Well, you need a we gotta get a police officer because it was tinted, you couldn't see it. He goes, You gotta bring his truck. He's like, We're not getting any permits. He goes, I'm gonna come here before anything opens. I fuck these permits. We're gonna he drives, he comes here with his truck and he gets up on a lift and puts the thing in the room. Oh, it's a great sign guy.

SPEAKER_00 43:48

Great sign guy.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

He is amazing. He's a great guy, a great guy. Yeah, he's a he's a mench. Um uh that's so funny that you used him too. So you do that. How long are you at that location?

SPEAKER_00 43:57

We were there for 10 years.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

10 years, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

when our lease was getting so w they wanted us to move to um where Frank's was in City Place. Oh yes where we are now was Frank's was there. Yes. And we got approached by the building and said we want you to take over Frank's space. And Frank was still open. And I said, I'm not gonna be the guy to put Frank out of business. Frank was an institute you know he was an icon in Connect Hartford. Yeah yeah and he was a great guy and his son Frank Jr. was a very nice guy who I didn't know either of him well but I said I'm not gonna be the guy to put them out of business. I said if something happens call me. But until then I have nothing to do with it. And sure enough I don't remember it was a year later or two years later they closed and they called us and one thing led to another we moved there. And you moved there and that's through you could and it was really on our tent or at least kind of it happened to work congruently. Oh I see so you go there. So we did we changed the name from Max to Max on Main to Max Downtown because we weren't on Main Street and we also were kind of changing the concept a little bit. We we really were an American bistro we said we can't do this food with that many seats without making it a little simpler. So we kind of took the the bistro menu and combined it with a chop house menu. I see so we knew that if we sold a lot of steaks steaks are about quality of meat and obviously cooking technique's important too but it's not you can cut a lot more steaks and you can margin on steak could be high. Well depending on the price of beef margin's high the percentage is lousy.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

Oh I see I see right and of course the beef prices gotten worse.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

Right because the beef prices are out of control still but the prices are out of control. You know the retail price of a steak in a restaurant now is often 70 70 to 100 bucks yeah I mean in heart I don't know what I mean going there tonight I'll but I think a New York strip is probably around 700 questions do they drop a check on you?

SPEAKER_01 45:55

Um they should um so the so you still my favorite restaurant I was just there uh three weeks ago before a show with uh with the guy who trains us it was fantastic it was what I love about Max downtown and it always is is it and I'm I want to ask you about this it never misses oh they missed I never seen it miss because we all miss at times I just have never had it I've never seen it miss.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

It just is you know who's the best basketball player in the world right now?

SPEAKER_01 46:27

I don't know there's so many great ones Steph Curry does not shoot 100% no that's true like Michael Jordan right he only shot 20% if you bet over 300 you're you go to the Hall of Fame.

SPEAKER_00 46:38

Right and that's a third of the time exactly so you know the the hopeful part for a restaurant is when we make our hopefully little mistakes a certain amount are noticed by the guest.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

Right well that's what Steve says right the customer isn't always right but they're allowed to be wrong.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

Absolutely that's the truth right you try to say that was his line well he said it we stole we stole it from the Ritz Carleton still for the Ritz Carleton okay that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Good place to steal from but but yeah like it it just it doesn't so when do you go from Max Downtown to okay and what's next? Is it Maximia Max Amoria?

SPEAKER_00 47:09

Maximia was be was after before Max Downtown and so was Amore. Really? So we opened the economy was getting a little funky right and um this location Avon came up the guy that owned the building Herb Galinsky was a friend of my father's and Herb was a a real character great guy old school developer. He had a Howard Johnson's there that he tore down and was building that small kind of the one on 44 there. Yeah where they're not there anymore they just left they just moved right yeah quit uh but they're opening a Max Burger there.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 47:44

Yeah so we went there and Herb was a great guy. But my father who I don't think I heard swear three times in his life says to me Herb is an old dear friend of mine but if you think he won't fuck you every chance he gets he will you don't know Herbie. And he said that with admiration almost it wasn't like Herb was a bad guy but he's he's a real estate guy.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

You know right he's he's got an incentive and you have a developers I used to do uh before I was a divorce lawyer I was at a big finance firm and I did workout work like failed loans. Yeah and an old like workout guy told me I forgot the guy's name but he said a developer is a guy that will dig up the bones of his dead mother and sell the bones to buy flowers for a prostitute.

SPEAKER_00 48:23

Well I wouldn't put herb in that classification about developers. Right. He said dude you know and and that guy had a great relationship with herb and his son-in-law uh Eric Spongin had a great relationship with him so I don't want to so but he says to you hey you should bring your magic there one thing led to another we opened Maximia which was a very casual Italian we were the first guys to do wood burning pizza I used to love when you walk in there that smell was intoxicating garlic does the new place have the same smell uh I've only been there once um and I can't answer that question but it's a great looking restaurant and the food was delicious. Okay so we probably have a better exhaust system better it's so good you go in there and it felt so like cozy and yeah so when does that open what year? That opened in uh about five years later so maybe 91 91 we opened in 86 and it's a huge success right away ridiculous you can't get it you can't get away I had a bank loan that um I had a$300,000 bank loan that number came up again and um at the time a friend of mine was the ex-banking commissioner and he said go to them you'll negotiate that loan all the banks are so screwed up right now you'll get you'll get it for 10 cents on the dollar oh you mean negotiate off like you've got give them 30 000 bucks and they'll walk away right didn't exactly go that way okay but I did pay it off I got like 10% off all right but I talked so I talked to this FDIC guy he says you know we want to pay off the loan uh we're having trouble we have some cash and he goes I've been to your restaurant you're fucking so busy I can't believe it so it didn't really it didn't really work but we did uh pay off the loan so we paid off you know maybe we got 10% off and we were sitting on cash I said let's get rid of the loan so you knocked that out so then what comes then what comes next which right Maximori which was somewhat of a bigger sister to Maximia. Where was that? It was at Glastonbury oh the Glastonbury one that's right okay I know and that was a huge success my opening chef there was Billy Grant and Billy was great we had co-chefs Billy and John Stout not Stout Stowe John Stowe I think that's his last time Billy was there.

SPEAKER_01 50:34

Wow Billy was Billy worked for me at Max Lemain Billy I think was my first podcast guess Billy is I didn't listen I looked to see I knew you were friendly with him. Yeah yeah yeah Billy see that Billy's a Billy's the first one yeah yeah he's does he do this all the time yeah he goes yeah oh but and and he recently cooked at my house because I was doing uh Oscar his sous chef at the or executive chef at Grant he um at the at BRICO you know I I said to him I'm having a uh I want to do a housewarming party you know and he's like I've never catered at someone's house said oh you'll be fine so he came over and he said to Billy Billy I've never worked at someone's house before could you help me? So Billy called me he's like you mind if I come I'm like mine like sure so he came and uh you know Billy Billy's working like a like a 60 year old without a pension he literally is I don't think he has a pension.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

No no but he's really he might have a he might have a couple million in his fine but like he me just he's on the line he's Billy is if there's one guy Billy and I we don't talk a lot but we'll get he'll send me a text every once in a while he goes dude I just had a dream last night that you're in it again and he gets these dreams like once every couple months or you know whatever and he you know he says I don't get it he goes and he says and we have a little love fest back yeah oh he's the best he's but he's literally I go in there and I see him down there and he's got you know there's 300 cover they're going crazy and he's working it like like crazy and like Billy what are you doing?

SPEAKER_01 51:53

You know what that's what he does he loves it great at it he's great at it he's amazing he just he just can still you know he even uh you know he even still he cares like he said to me he was cooking at my at my stove and I you know was he was asking me about I I used to represent a lot of restaurants like restaurant chefs before I did only divorce work. Well they all get divorced so they all get divorced they used to all get for a while like I would even do like first time DUI work when I was just starting out and uh so I had so many chefs that owed me barter because they didn't have any money. He's you know young sous chefs they're like they don't have three grand for a way or whatever. So they're like I'm like how about you do two dinners at my house like yeah no problem.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

So on Mondays we'd always have like somebody coming over to cook you know but he like you know he said to me he was like uh uh I don't think he'll mind me saying this but he was like cooking whatever and I was telling him oh yeah you know Max opened a big place he's like you think that's gonna impact Brico I'm like first of all why do you care but he this is baby but we can impact Brico we can't impact Brico is you can't impact it you couldn't do anything I've never tried to impact it but you can't impact it you can't I said Billy you could like you could you could murder a dog in front of that place and like in people like Trump no no right no right shoot someone on Fifth Avenue it's true but it's he's it's impenetrable right and it's a perfect I mean the New York Times called it a perfect restaurant it's a great I haven't I have not eaten there in several years it's so good but I don't eat in West Harvard very often and if I do I usually at Max and he um he's a great chef a great restaurant he's got great people there he's he's the best he um and then eventually you do Trouble Kitchen. Trouble Kitchen was um 98 uh no I think it was yeah it might have been 98. Okay so yeah Trouble Kitchen and then Max Burger of course well max fish was before Max Burger I think I'm lost the track now and then Max and then Max Burger but when you Yes Max Fish was next and then Max Catering Max Catering Oyster Bar opened in I think uh 99.

SPEAKER_01 53:46

And then and Max Catering Max Catering was more like 15 years ago you should see the check I wrote to you this summer for my 50th birthday at that winery oh my gosh we had Max Catering ran it and did like the main the the liquor the the the raw bar I had over 350 guests and then I had Tyler Anderson had a station Billy Grant had a station uh Scott Miller had a station of birthday oh it was crazy and uh and uh Prasad you know Prasad of course he did a station doing lamb chops in a tent or chef Prasad oh like uh yeah it was an insane party but uh yeah the if you have a 55th I want to be invited you will it's crazy we had we had drag queens we had people on stilts we had three tattoo artists doing real tattoos it was the craziest party people still talk about it and I remember like Sammy said to me um you gotta go pick up a bank check for Max's and I said how much is it and I was like oh no that's our marketing budget for a year but it was worldwide sounds like it was good marketing oh uh hunter yeah he they it was insane it was fantastic um but I what what is the um you know so what is the your view on like why was your restaurant and your you know you built this you know legacy obviously I know that you've been bought out of it now but you built all of that and and and it's been wildly successful the food's good at all the places what's the what do you attribute the success to well I didn't build it by myself no of course as you know yeah and all the guys I built it with are the ones running it so it's not the transition was very easy no but you were the leader.

SPEAKER_00 55:14

I was the leader but they you know one of the things we really promoted was a true entrepreneurial spirit in each restaurant and and that's why we had ten and eleven restaurants not a hundred you know and not that I ever had a goal to do a hundred um I really had a goal to do one and then a second but we always a lot of our success in my opinion came from the fact that we treated each restaurant like it was our first we never said oh we're really good at seafood when we open in uh Glastonbury it'll be so easy we like started all over again you know we started getting into the different equipment you could get we never duplicated what we were doing we kind of said we tried to progress and get and but each restaurant we wanted to have a little bit of its own a little or a lot of its own identity depending on what it was. You know when you open Max Burger you didn't want it obviously to be anything like the oyster bar but when we opened the oyster bar when we opened Fish we wanted to be like the oyster bar but we didn't want it to be identical. Oh I forgot oyster bar too that's another good one. That's been a pretty successful place.

SPEAKER_01 56:21

Yeah that's is you know my my son I who's 11 now I started him young on oysters and he like that's a mistake it's a and sushi Wall Street Journal just did a big thing about this he goes I I take him to like omakase places in New York and like we're we go down to Orlando recently and he looks up and he's like Dad I want to go to this place. It's a Michelin star omakase place in Orlando it's three seven how to read in yeah I told him how to read in to the 6 right he doesn't want you know he's not a chicken nuggets kid he wants like you know he was like dad can we go uh sushi and we go there and he's like can we do omakase tonight and I'm like I yes you know like he likes the he likes the good stuff but it's uh yeah like uh the oyster place he goes they cap you now at two dozen per person when it's buckshack so that's enough that's enough I agree he but he clears those out in six minutes you know it's like whatever but does he put cocktail sauce on no as he wants he wants naked briny northeast oysters love it right he doesn't like uh we was I've never put cocktail sauce on an oyster mouth we were just in London I was in London with him to go see Arsenal play and he we went to the uh borough market and they have these oysters from like the you know the coast of Iowa that's a cool place so cool and he he got an oyster that was like this big and it was like a pound and a half and it was like what was a big he took it right down he took it right down but yeah he loves the briny big oysters did they have that thing with the cheese where they spot we did that the red cleat sandwich the rat clean they took it over the boiled potatoes they did you could get it over potatoes or on a sourdough uh I think we had it in the potatoes they have that in New York too they do it in like uh they there's two markets there the Bryant Park market they you can get that there too but we did it we did it in Burrow Market we did at the oyster we did the Dubai strawberries with the chocolate I got so sick after eating after spending the day afternoon there.

SPEAKER_00 58:03

Oh because you eat so much I think I just got a little bug or something. Oh okay yeah yeah we went to the the Burrow in the same night we w we had lunch there you know daytime we're there with I think I had the whole family and um at night we were going to Jamie Oliver's restaurant the one that had the uh I don't remember the name of it was the number was something he was taking like ex cons. Oh yeah kids maybe and we're eating there and I think I had a little bit of an upset stomach I think I went to the bathroom during my dinner there because I was enjoying the dinner and I wouldn't leave I think I went to the bathroom like 11 times within a two hour gosh that's not good.

SPEAKER_01 58:39

My wife looks at me and says and you're gonna eat I go I'm in this restaurant how do I not eat what we went to we were there I took them to Carbone and my hot take is it's not that good. You took the what? Except the Carbone oh in New York well no London the new one in London uh never been to Hana Carbone's it's it was it was mid as the kids say these days it was I I'm not hearing other than the original I've never heard great things yes you know whatever like I could make a better spicy regatoni frankly I really could it's not that hard it's not that hard it's tomato paste and some Calabrian chili I don't think it's and you can make it in two minutes it's not good but it was it was it was fine but it was to me it was a lot of sizzle it wasn't it it was very expensive. Yeah I had not been to one I I still want to go but I we went to this other place called piranha which was insane it turns into a nightclub at night and like in the middle of there's a DJ on the floor and you're like in the middle of it all the waiters got up on the tables and we're dancing and it's like fancy it was fine it was it was uh it was pretty good we just had that experience in Orlando we went to this Greek place that was insane they did the waiters and they throw they throw a napkins so loud and of course we brought my the youngest who is on the spectrum and so she's got sensitivity to noise and my wife was looking at me like what the fuck we did my grandpa she loved it though she usually wears earphones we didn't bring them because we didn't think it was going to be crazy but she was totally fine because she was watching the people throw stuff she's like this is the best ever dad so I don't know it was good um but but getting back to that so you tried to do be new but what about the overall philosophy? Like what like what what what do you think if you could attribute this success to one philosophy what do you think it would be well I don't know if I could really answer that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:11

I mean it's always hospitality is the the the easy answer. But what we used to always train our people and especially in a new restaurant we'd you know I'd take a little grease pencil on a on a whiteboard and I divide I'd say what percentage do you think the food is in this restaurant for success and you got food service and atmosphere and I and the thing I used to push really was the food has got to go for about forty percent okay instead of thirty three.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:42

And and and the service has got to go for 40% and the atmosphere is going to go for 40% which will give you 120% because one of those is going to miss every night. And they're all going to miss at certain moments. The food is not going to be as hot as it should be or it's not right that medium or steak is going to be a little closer to medium. Okay. Or the whatever it is, the pasta is not as El Dente as it should be. But if the service is so good if the service hit the 40% number you don't notice that the pasta wasn't as good as it could have been. And if the atmosphere the lighting is good the music vibe the everything so if everyone tries to outachie the other third we make up for it. So it's so it's all those elements is kind of the first answer. It's you know it's it's food it's service it's atmosphere.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:34

I see and so if you strive that way uh then if something misses you can still a great server makes up for a meal that you don't notice it.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:43

Oh right because but if your server is not attentive then you notice the food a little more oh interesting and don't get me wrong you never want to compromise on anything No no no right but things don't always shit happens in everything you're cooking you're cooking it happens in your law firm and it happens right in a school it happens slips.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:00

Yeah that slips interesting all right couple final questions um best temperature to eat a steak at or does it depend on the steak?

SPEAKER_00 1:02:07

It definitely depends on the steak so um but I I'm a for myself yeah I'm a rare but not very rare. Not black and blue? I like I like a black and when I say black man I like a charred steak it's got to have a crispy leathery exterior.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:24

So you'll do a rare yeah wow I gotta I gotta try it I just I went to Texas one time I spent some time there doing on my old job and I had a sat down with a guy an old banker and he said um cut off its horns wipe its ass and put it on a plate and I was I don't like it that rare my mother must say my mother loved a rare very rare meat very I saw a guy in it there's a restaurant I think it's closed it was in um maybe it didn't close it in the Bellagio it was um Jean-Georges von Garichton it's a French Asian uh oh well because he had a famous steak shot in there yeah yeah it's right and he would the guy would come in and we were there and he the guy the waiter told me about him he would take a rare prime rib and he put this much horserad on it like literally this much and he'd sit there eat it rare. I couldn't put it so you don't you like it well done or something? No I don't like prime rib I think I'm no a a steak though.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:12

No I eat medium uh medium rare yeah you know except the hanger steak I want more or a skirt steak eye a ribeye is not great real rare either no because you gotta render the fat down you got to get it a little rendered and you got to get you know that that part of the the the decal part yeah yeah yeah you know it needs a little more time it needs more time but it you're right because like like a filet like a uh like like a New York strip I love a New York strip medium rare that's fine but I like a true medium rare yes but most people's medium rare is medium that's right no no no I want it like a true steakhouse medium rare cool pink center exactly right right okay so that's the best way to uh the best way to eat it what is um and if you're in I know you don't like fast food but it what is your McDonald's order if you go today you know uh today if I went today I mean traditionally there's a quarter pond of cheese okay um I'm trying to think any modifications no okay I gotta figure it out I get extra onions and pickles well I would certainly not mind that I love onions on a burger you know caramelized or raw both both not together not together no raw is my go-to okay but the one of the better burgers I've ever had it it's it's been touted for years is the uh Red Hook Tavern in Brooklyn that's like the one the best burger in New York it's so and I've never been to Red Hook but they have a place in SAG and I go there by boat once in a while and they're burgers so I I had it there and they do their burgers so simple. Is it an aged beef? I I think so because the one I love in New York is monettas that has that age it's very similar I never had monettas but I've seen it the meat the beef itself is special but they cook it I I don't know if they even if it's all done on a griddle it might be a little bit of um um I can't think of what they cook it in water um oh steamed cook it in water you know um I can't believe I can't think of the name of it when they put it like in plastic and they Oh sous vide sous vide exactly so I think they um I'm getting old I don't know if they sous vide or something because it's cooked so perfectly medium rare through it's like you know it's an inch and a quarter of it on a grid or whatever they're doing they get it right but they do a a slice of griddled onion b beneath the burger and it's griddled but it's it's what I would call au point which is a French cooking term for cooked to a point. To a point which is the way you want in my opinion that's how you want chicken it's cooked but just cooked. It's not it's not dry it's still juicy it's not pink but it's just past that pink chicken. Yes you know and pink chicken people get and they get so schemed like I'll just cut around that little pink part because the rest of it's so perfect. You want it you almost you want it like the pink just disappeared and pull it off. So my I so my McDonald's orders definitely fries. Fries yeah the fries are good nothing on them uh salt. And hopefully they put a lot on. Yeah. But I you know, I haven't had I don't think I've had McDonald's fries or a burger in several years. Several years. Okay, that's uh but if I needed to go, you know. Quarter powder. The quarter powder with cheese. That's definitely not the Big Mac. There's nothing for me. That extra piece of bread is stupid.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:18

Stupid. You could get the you can have the quarter pounder at a patty and add the Big Mac sauce. Probably. And lose the ketchup in the mustard.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:25

I like the ketchup mustard. Oh, you do. I'm the opposite of Steve, by the way. To me, ketchup is the even though there's nothing I put it on other than a hamburger. Right. And fries? Maybe fries. Yeah. If the fries sometimes Steve loves ketchup and everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:38

I think I no, he hates it. Oh, he hates it? He's never had it. Oh, I'm thinking of my friend Stefan. I'm sorry. No, and I so I like it there. Oh, that's right. He's the one who says he'd never had it in the five years.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:47

Never had it. I begged him to try it. He won't pay it. And his son Wyatt, who's like I treat, think of as my nephew. Right. Same Michigan.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:53

They won't, they won't touch it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:55

No. I go, you're missing out on the greatest condiment in the world. It is the greatest condiment. And would you agree Heinz has it nailed? There's no other one that I know of.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:03

You guys serve Heinz and Max's, right? Of course. They fuck around with that like Kensington shit, these fancy. I've never had it. I heard Kensington's good, but I never had it. But if you you have hunts, to me, your restaurants is all.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:13

I judge you. I have a rule. If I walk into a restaurant and they have hunts ketchup, I'm gone. I'm gone. I'm gone. I also have a rule. If you use battered French fries, you're out. Oh, the coated? The coated. Oh, they spray it with some.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:25

Well, it just to stabilize it or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:27

Potato starch, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:28

Can't cut your fries, charge me an extra dollar.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:30

And if you're gonna serve frozen ones, I can deal with that if they're good.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:33

Just charge them. Just cook them right. Charge me more for the f-like with Helen downstairs at Sally and Bob's room, they were getting a fryer finally. And I said, listen, can I beg of you? I'm in the building. Spend, charge a dollar more, get hand-cut French fries. They're delicious. People love good fries that are real, that you know, whatever. And she did, and they're the best fries.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:49

There were there's when I came in this morning, there was a line of people waiting.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:51

Oh, yeah, it's good. It's good, but they're free.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:53

I used to go to Sally and Bob's years ago when the the Ziki zoned it. Oh, right. Uh with Sally and Bob's.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:57

I want them to rename it Helen and Caesars, but they think they'll lose business. But everyone knows Helen and Caesar. Oh, it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:02

You know, it's been there forever. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:03

Well, listen, thank you so much for doing this. I've um wanted to have you in for a while, and I've been asking Rich to uh Steve to facilitate this.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:10

And so uh He didn't facilitate it, by the way. Oh, he didn't? I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:14

I think he was a number, but in there just to make an introduction to say that it's cool to come in and he never told me he even did the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:19

Oh, he didn't? I listened to it after we um Oh you saw it after we made a day.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:23

So uh yeah, so thank you so much. This is great. I love learning about this and um and and how um somebody with a singular focus has made so much success. What are you doing to keep busy now?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:35

I play a lot of golf. You're a golf guy. Okay. I'm a golf guy. I was at one point I was pretty damn good. Yeah. Something's happened in the last two years.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:42

Are you like a scratch golfer? No, I was never a scratch.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:44

I was the lowest I've ever been is about a six. Okay. But I'm a 10 right now. Okay. But you know, if you were a lawyer and you went from a six to a ten, yeah, well, it's the opposite not. It's not it's backwards. You know, if you were a 10 as a lawyer, like 10 out of 10, you'd be, and all of a sudden I go, Rich Rocco's a six now. That's how it feels as a six handicap going to a ten.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:04

I I think I'd I'd be a fun guy to go golfing with. I wouldn't golf, I would just sit there and like tell jokes and hang out with you guys. I'm just not interested.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:10

We need some guys.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:11

Yeah, like I just go around and like Would you swear once in a while to take the pressure off of me? I drop the C word. I mean, I say bad stuff, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:18

Yeah, you can use the C word on the golf course as long as you're with all men.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:21

With all men. And the you know, it's funny, the British, because my buttons are.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:24

Oh, they would know how to use that word beautifully. It's like shit to them. They use that word beautifully.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:28

So I use it all the time there. So I and I tell I tell Ryball jokes and stuff, so uh, I have a golf guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:32

What was that show? Uh Succession? Sucession?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:35

Oh, yeah, I haven't watched that. Is that good?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:37

Very good. But the guy who's the the father, I don't know the actor's name, but he was the the matriarch. Oh or pa uh patriarch, yeah. Patriarch. Um he used the C word better than anyone I've ever heard. Oh, it's uh It didn't make it didn't make a sentence without it. Oh no, I love it. So good. Well, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:55

Pleasure, enjoy this.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:56

Absolutely, it was great. Great getting to know you.